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Subject: Hebrews 1:8
Replies: 33 Views: 1270
may2011 20.04.10 - 11:50am
But unto the son he saith, Thy throne O God is forever and ever... why did the father call his son God? *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 09:46pm
hmmm.... you actually saying God himself called his son God? very wishful thinking. anyway you using this scripture to show me that Jesus is God... right? 2 in 1... theres no 3rd person in this scripture so its di- and not tri- even if this scriptures was proving wot you saying it does not prove that God is a trinity *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 09:59pm
anyway Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation of Psalm 45:6. The above translation of Hebrews 1:8 is an example of extreme Trinitarian translation bias. Here they outrageously try to claim that God is addressing Jesus as God. Their translation is not the most natural reading of the original Greek text and it crudely violates the context in order to promote Trinitarian doctrine *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:01pm
Trinitarian Greek scholars themselves openly admit the Greek grammar does indeed allow for a different translation. Therefore, the proper translation of this passage is not a Greek grammar question, but a question of theological interpretation in order to determine which one is correct. For example, the RSV, a Trinitarian version, translates the original passage quoted here as, Your divine throne endures for ever and ever. (Psalm 45:6). This demonstrates Trinitarian Greek scholars admit a different translation is just as accurate on grammatical grounds alone. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:02pm
However, most Trinitarian scholars are so eager to look for reasons why they can justify the preferred Trinitarian translation that they fail to see the obvious meaning intended in this passage. The main intention of this passage is to indicate and describe the authority of Jesus that resulted due to his resurrection glory. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:03pm
The Greek text literally reads, the throne of you the god to the age of the age. The writer of Hebrews is simply saying that Jesus is exalted to the throne of God in heaven and as such he is not trying to demonstrate that Jesus is God but that Jesus has ascended to the throne of God and is therefore above the angels with all authority. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:09pm
Hebrews 1:8-9 is a quotation of the Septuagint translation of Psalm 45:6-7. The 45th Psalm is a love song for the Davidic king's marriage to a foreign princess from Tyre in Phoenicia. The following represents how an English translation would look by translating the verse as ''Your throne O God.''
Remember, this is being said to the human Davidic King who is marrying the princess of Tyre. does that sound right? *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:13pm
This passage must apply to a human King. He is marrying the princess of Tyre. Now it should be rather obvious to most people that God would not be referring to the Davidic human King as 'God.' The RSV translates the passage as ''Your divine throne endures forever and ever.'' This captures the sense of the passage. Also notice verse 11, ''because he is your Lord bow down to him.'' *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:14pm
One bows down to the Davidic King because he is Lord. This is a common concept in the Old Testament. The same thing is occurring here in Hebrews chapter one (see Acts 2:36). We can see from a review of the original passage that God is not calling this Davidic King ''God'' but is referring to that fact that he sits upon a divinely established throne. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:16pm
This is similar to 1 Chronicles 29:23 which says, ''Then Solomon sat on the throne of YAHWEH as king instead of David his father; and he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.'' This is the divinely established throne God established through his covenant with David, ''Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever'' (2 Samuel 7:16) *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:16pm
And concerning Jesus the Messiah we are reminded of this same covenant promise by Luke, ''He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David'' (1:35). *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:17pm
Clearly, this passage is not a reference to the King as 'God' but to the divine establishment of his throne. We have the very same situation here in Hebrews 1:8. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:23pm
Let us look at the immediate context. Notice the recurring them in the first chapter of Hebrews...
''Having made purification for our sins, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF Majesty on High having become so much better than the angels.'' (1:3-4). *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:28pm
''To which of the angels did He ever say....'' THE THRONE OF YOU the God to the age of the age.'' (1:5,8).
''To which of the angels did He ever say, ''SIT AT My RIGHT HAND until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet'' (1:13). *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:29pm
Notice how our interpretation which says verse 1:8 means that Jesus sits on God's right hand at His throne is not only totally consistent with the flow of thought in the first chapter of Hebrews but the entire context demands it. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:30pm
Now there is yet more. Let us use the Trinitarian translation and then ask ourselves how this translation of theirs fits with the next verse, Hebrews 1:9. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:30pm
''But to the Son he [God] says, 'O God, your throne is forever and ever. The sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom/kingship. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your partners.''' (Hebrews 1:8-9) *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:33pm
Something is very wrong here. In the Trinitarian translation, they have God the Father speaking to God the Son, ''O God,'' and then God the Father tells God the Son that he, God the Father, is God the Son's God, ''God, your God.'' It is ridiculously laughable. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:34pm
God the Son has a God? What insanity! How can Trinitarians expect anyone to believe anything they say when they are so blind to such an obvious contradiction? *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:40pm
see mate when studying a scripture you gotta look at the whole chapter to be sure that you interpreting it correctly.
now when you look at the wider context of whole of Hebrews. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:40pm
Notice the consistent theme of Hebrews is that Jesus is our great High Priest because he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God in the heavens above the servant angels. Also notice the similar language and how the writer sums up what he has been saying all along at Hebrews 8:1. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:49pm
sat down at the right hand of Majesty on High... (1:3).
Sit at My right hand... (1:13).
who has passed through the heavens,... the throne of grace, (4:14-16).
has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens (8:1). *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:54pm
Especially take note of the language of 1:3 and 8:1 and 12:2 in comparison to Hebrews 1:8, 'at the right hand of the throne of Majesty/God.'
*
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:55pm
The force of the context of Hebrews is powerful and indicates that the proper interpretation of Hebrews 1:8 is to understand that Jesus has ascended to the throne of God and sits at God's right hand in power. Any other interpretation seriously does violence to the context of the written word. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:56pm
The entire theme of the passage is that the human being Jesus, who was made lower than the angels, and suffered for our sins, ascended to the right hand of the throne of God and for this reason he is over the angels. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 10:57pm
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to suppose Hebrews 1:8 is suggesting Jesus is God. None! *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 11:13pm
Summation of the Facts.
-The Greek text literally reads, 'the throne of you the god to the age of the age'
-The verse is a quotation of Psalm 45:6 where we read the Davidic king is marrying the princess of tyre
-The structure of the verse parallels 'the throne of you the god' with 'the sceptre of your kingship/reign
-The Trinitarian translation absurdly results in God having a God
-The context is referring to what happened as a result of Jesus' resurrection and we are told he became better than the angels.
-The entire passage is about Jesus ascending to the right hand of the throne of God. Indeed, this theme is mentioned three times in this chapter alone. *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 11:16pm
If we are truly honest with ourselves here the truth is quite plain. Jesus became better than the angels. Hebrews 1:8 obviously means that Jesus' authority is the authority of sitting at the right hand of the throne of God until the end of the age and he obtained that authority by virtue of his resurrection glory. His throne is God's throne. As he himself says, 'I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne' *
unquiet1 20.04.10 - 11:17pm
The only reasonable translation of Hebrews 1:8 is to understand the words 'the God' to mean that Jesus has the inherited the authority of God's throne.
''I myself conquered and SAT DOWN WITH MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE.'' (Revelation 3:21). *
may2011 28.04.10 - 09:09am
Jesus in his humanity looks tothefather as his God. In any case why shoul almost all versions render hebrews1;8 as it is? are they all ignorant? *
may2011 28.04.10 - 09:14am
as i said earlir its not a God having a God. The father was only Jesus' God in his humanity. *
unquiet1 28.04.10 - 09:34am
if Jesus look to the Father as God then why would the Father call human Jesus 'God'...?. *
unquiet1 28.04.10 - 09:41am
you make that scripture sound as if the Father was calling the Son Jesus(human), God. but now you say its not a case of God having a God. *
unquiet1 28.04.10 - 09:44am
the Father can not have a God. And Jesus was humanity. so saying this verse shows that the Father is calling a human, God, is totally wrong. dont you see that....?. *
